46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada

Journals of the Senate

---

Issue 18

Tuesday, November 18, 1997
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

---

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bonnell, Bosa, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Cogger, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Doody, Doyle, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forest, Forrestall, Ghitter, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Haidasz, Hays, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phillips, Pitfield, Poulin, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wood

PRAYERS

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that he had received a certified copy of Order in Council P.C. 1997-1492, dated October 17, 1997, appointing Mary McLaren, Usher of the Senate, effective November 10, 1997;

And pursuant to an Order of the Senate made November 6, 1997, this position will be recognized in and by the Senate as that of Usher of the Black Rod.

Tribute was paid to Colonel Jean Doré, former Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, who retired on June 28, 1997.

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements. Tribute was paid to the memory of the Right Honourable John Whitney (Jack) Pickersgill, P.C., former Minister, whose death occurred November 14, 1997.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Comeau tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-251S):

TUESDAY, November 18, 1997

The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries has the honour to present its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such legislation and other matters as were referred to it, reports, pursuant to Rule 104 of the Rules, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session on the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

1. With respect to its examination and consideration of legislation:

Professional and other services	$ 9,900
Transportation and Communication	---
Witnesses Expenses	$ 1,102
Miscellaneous	---
TOTAL	$ 11,002

 

2. With respect to its study on the questions of privatization and quota licensing in Canada's fisheries, authorized by the Senate on Thursday, February 13, 1997:

 

Professional and other services	$ 2,000
Transportation and Communication	---
Witnesses Expenses	---
Miscellaneous	---
TOTAL	$ 2,000

 

During this Session of Parliament, your Committee held, 3 meetings during which it heard 8 witnesses in relation to its study of Bill C-26, An Act respecting the Oceans of Canada, and 3 meetings during which it heard 4 witnesses in relation to its study on the questions of privatization and quota licensing in Canada's fisheries.

Respectfully submitted,

GÉRALD J. COMEAU

Chairman

The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-252S):

TUESDAY, November 18, 1997

The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration has the honour to present its

FOURTH REPORT

Your Committee reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

 

Professional Services	---
Transportation & Communication	---
Other, Miscellaneous	$ 428.00
TOTAL	$ 428.00

 

Respectfully submitted,

WILLIAM ROMPKEY

Chair

The Honourable Senator Pépin, Joint Chair of the Special Joint Committee to Amend Section 93 of the Constitution Act 1867, concerning the Quebec School System, informed the Senate that, pursuant to the Order adopted by the Senate on October 9, 1997, she had deposited the Report of the said Committee with the Clerk of the Senate on November 7, 1997.-Sessional Paper, No. 1\36-253.

The Honourable Senator Pépin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Forest, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration on Thursday next, November 20, 1997.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, November 19, 1997, at 1:30 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Interpretation Act (powers to arrest and enter dwellings), to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bonnell, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Thursday next, November 20, 1997.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pearson:

That the Special Committee of the Senate on the Cape Breton Development Corporation have power to sit during sittings of the Senate for the purposes of hearing witnesses for the duration of its study, even though the Senate may then be sitting and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

 __________________________________________________

Ordered, That Motion No. 20 standing in the name of the Honourable Senator Bonnell be brought forward.

The Honourable Senator Bonnell moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis:

That the Special Committee of the Senate on Post-Secondary Education have power to sit at 3:30 p.m. on Tuesday,, November 18, 1997, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Ordered, That Order No. 2 under OTHER BUSINESS, Reports of Committees be brought forward. Consideration of the First Report of the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament (terms of reference), presented in the Senate on November 5, 1997.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs for the Honourable Senator Gigantès moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Third reading of Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, that the Bill be read the third time.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment.

Motions

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the, next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Consideration of the Third Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce (Bill S-3, An Act to amend the Pension Benefits Standards Act, 1985 and the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Act, with amendments) presented in the Senate on November 5, 1997.

The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sparrow, that the Report be adopted.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs for the Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Grafstein, that the Bill as amended be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading on Thursday next, November 20, 1997.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Reports of Committees

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Berntson:

That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to examine and report on the manner in which the chain of command of the Canadian Forces both in-theatre and at, National Defence Headquarters, responded to the operational, disciplinary, decision-making and administrative problems encountered during the Somalia deployment to the extent that these matters have not been examined by the Commission of Inquiry into the Deployment of Canadian Forces to Somalia;

That the Committee in examining these issues may call witnesses from whom it believes it may obtain evidence relevant to these matters including but not limited to:

1. former Ministers of National Defence;

2. the then Deputy Minister of National Defence;

3. the then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of, National Defence;

4. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell);

5. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J. Dixon);

6. the persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period;

7. the then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation); and

8. the then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff.

That seven Senators, nominated by the Committee of Selection act as members of the Special Committee, and that three members constitute a quorum;

That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses under oath, to report from time to time and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have power to authorize television and radio broadcasting, as it deems appropriate, of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee have the power to engage the services of such counsel and other professional, technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purposes of its examination;

That the political parties represented o the Special Committee be granted allocations for expert assistance with the work of the Committee;

That it be empowered to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee submit its report not later than one year from the date of it being constituted, provided that if the Senate is not sitting, the report will be deemed submitted on the day such report is deposited with the Clerk of the Senate; and

That the Special Committee include in its report, its findings and recommendations regarding the structure, functioning and operational effectiveness of National Defence Headquarters, the relationship between the military and civilian components of NDHQ, and the relationship among the Deputy Minister of Defence, the Chief of Defence Staff and the Minister of, National Defence.

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Forrestall moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the motion be amended by adding in paragraph 2 the following:

"9. the present Minister of National Defence.".

After debate, The Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 5 (inquiry) and 3 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Grafstein called the attention of the Senate to the Thirty-eighth Annual Meeting of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group, held in, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, from, September 11 to 15, 1997.

Debate concluded.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to examine the present state and the future of agriculture in Canada; and

That the Committee present its report no later than, December 15, 1998.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Doyle:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to examine the present state and the future of forestry in Canada; and

That the Committee present its report no later than, December 15, 1998.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robertson:

That the Standing Senate Committee Agriculture and Forestry have power to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it; and

That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada for the purpose of such studies.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be empowered to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Report of Environment Canada, required by the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act for the period ended, March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Access to Information Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1, s. 72(2) and the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985,, c. P-21, s. 72(2).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-240.

Report of the Correctional Investigator for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Correctional and Conditional Release Act, R.S.C. 1992, c. 20 s. 192.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-241.

Report on the operations under the Fisheries Development Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1997 pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11 s. 150(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-242.

Report of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, including its accounts and financial statements certified by the Auditor General, for the fiscal year ended April 30, 1997, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985,, c. F-11, s. 150(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-243.

Report of the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board for the year ended December 31, 1996, pursuant to an Act to amend the Patent Act and to provide for certain matters in relation thereto, R.S.C. 1985 (3rd Supp.), c. 33, s. 39.24(3) and s. 39.25(6). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-244.

Report of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency required to the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act for the period ended March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Access to Information Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1, s. 72(2) and the, privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-21, s. 72(2).-Sessional Paper, No. 1/36-245.

Report of Defence Construction (1951) Limited, including its accounts and financial statements certified by the Auditor General, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11., s. 150(1).-Sessional No. 1/36-246.

Report of the Department of Finance required by the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act for the period ended, March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Access to information Act , R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1, s. 72(2) and the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985,, c. P-21, s. 72(2).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-247.

Summary of the Corporate Plan for 1997-98, including the Operating Budget and Capital Budget of Defence Construction (1951) Limited, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, s. 125(4). Sessional Paper no. 1/36-248.

Report of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1997, pursuant to the Financial Institutions and Deposit Insurance System Act, R.S.C. 1985,, c. 18, s. 25.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-249.

Report of the British Colombia Treaty Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1997, pursuant to the, British Colombia Treaty Commission Act, S.C. 1995, c. 45,, sbs. 21(3).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-250.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bosa:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

---